Duration 17:5
I'm right about the Old Goku | DBZ
Published 8 Sep 2023
https://playwt.link/six Experience breathtaking aerial dogfights, drive fearsome tanks, and captain powerful naval vessels in War Thunder, the most comprehensive free-to-play military vehicle combat game. Dive into the heart of historic battles with players from around the world! After Cell's speech, the whole world fell in a state of terror. The police and the army, both weakened due to peacetime, were unable to do anything against this menace. However, everyone had forgotten about the boy who defeated the evil arch fiend Piccolo. The world had forgotten about the man who defeated both the Saiyans and Frieza. The world had forgotten about Son Goku. This is a little passage from around the middle of the Cell arc, and I think right now it perfectly describes the Dragon Ball community. A few weeks ago I made a video about how I missed the old Goku and I trashed super Goku because I didn't think he was like the old Z Goku. I specifically described it as Goku being a shell of his former self, while the reception of the video was mostly positive, A lot of the criticism was aimed at the video, felt nit picky and they just rode me the wrong way to the point where I felt like I had to respond. Intro: 0:00 Sponsor - War Thunder: 1:08 Toriyama's "Quotes": 2:07 Revisiting Moro: 5:51 Goku's first "Senzu Bean" Moment: 7:03 Goku spare Frieza & learns: 8:37 That one Senzu Bean scene: 13:00
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Like Six said, Goku almost always shows concern for the well-being of his friends and innocent bystanders. He isn’t like a superhero who seeks out threats to stop and spends his spare time flying around trying to stop crime, but he also wouldn’t just let an innocent person die or get hurt if he was around to help them. ... 318
Given Goku's words to gohan about not backing cell into a corner we know this possibility was known to Goku. ... 66
Toriyama’s vision of Dragon Ball seemed to have been put on a pedestal for the most recent stuff, which is fine, but I do think that the input of his editors from back in the Z era was mostly beneficial to the series as a whole. ... 72
So much emotion from just 1 pannel
Easily surpassess anything in Super 23
I've been reflecting on this character for a while, and I have to say that while we have the slight differences in opinion, I'm still on the same page. Goku's character has been tarnished. DBS Super Hero is what really sold it for me. You either say he's stupid or that he has dementia (granted, he did hit his head as a kid). ... 139
But it doesn't help that it's essentially the fandom writing the manga/anime.
Your first video and this one are on point 31
Chi never allowed Goku to attempt to train him, then after Goku's revived; he sees Gohan on a battlefield. When Goku told Gohan to go home where he'd be safe, Gohan just returned to the fight. After recovering from nearly being killed by Vegeta, Goku finds Gohan in another battle. To top it off, Future Trunks tells Goku about Gohan being the one to train him. The lack of context behind all of Gohan's involvement was likely a major contributor to this misunderstanding, and his desire to help prepare for the artificial humans and Cell didn't help. Once Goku learned that Gohan was in danger and only fighting because he felt pressured into doing it; he immediately tried to intervene and get Gohan back to relative safety. ... 12
Also I think Goku as the Fool, not necessarily stupid or superheroic but just living in the moment of his own positivity, is the best depiction of him. ... 20
This doesn't mean he is Superman, but superheroes overall aren't exactly like Superman. However, because they care about the world and others still, it doesn't take away that they are heroes.
I agree with others who mentioned the reason why Super Goku is different from Z Goku is that - Super Goku was the view Toriyama really wanted for Goku.
Within the Namek saga, when he approaches Freeza, an important aspect is that he doesn't know all the people of Namek or Saiyans. However, Goku is still willing to fight for them and wanted Freeza to pay because of his cruelty. He cares about people he didn't even know. This even shows how Goku believes in justice.
In the same arc, while fighting Freeza, he does show to fight for the universe. He says "But I have to defeat Freeza now, while I still can... or the entire universe will be in danger"
In the Boo saga, while fighting kid Boo he says "I better go all out if I want to stand a chance. The whole universe is at stake here!!"
In the series, even when Goku brings up the world, he isn't just focusing on "his family" or "his friends," he wants to save everyone in the world.
I feel this is a reason why many feel disconnected from Super Goku. When you compare him to Z Goku, both of them have different ideologies.
Not saying that Super Goku doesn't want to save his friends and others, but it is clear that most of the time he focuses on fighting a strong person—even when things are dire.
Z Goku does want to fight others who are strong, but when they are evil and set on destroying the world, his entire focus will be to save the world. ... 14
I mean of course they don't they're Dragon Ball fans and lack the ability to read. ... 78
Yeah! When he was a child! He's an adult man now and we have literally seen his progression in DBZ and now his obvious regression in Super.
"Only in the English dub is Goku a superhero" Time and time again Goku would put the well-being of Earth and his friends before himself or his desires. People say Vegeta was bad for letting Cell become perfect but Super Goku DEFINITELY would have done the same thing. Super Goku is basically the cause of everything bad happening or escalating to dire situations in Super because he is a retard now. ... 17
It was just a way of showing off, like "My son is so powerful, even after a full heal you stand no chance!" ... 4
And to my understanding the only reason why it happened from a meta narrative is so they could hint at Uub (and continue the cell similarities) since I think they had no idea how to naturally introduce him as they are still trying to reach the same end of Z from super. ... 9
He had fears, he was afraid to die, he question his own abilities and knew he was limited. A more human Goku was amazing touch with the character. Goku refusing to stop Buu will forever be a stain for me. I get his mindset, but Goku punching Gero to stop going on a mass killing spree, to Goku simply saying “nope, don’t need to stop it because it’s not my place.”
That forever changed my perspective on the character. Akira did his job very well with getting to question Goku morals after Buu well at least for me. ... 9
I do remember the dog mayor remembering him, but that might be filler.
Goku gives the senzu to Moro because he literally wants to fight with a good version of Moro. After Goku gives the bean, Moro immediately attacks him and breaks his hand. To which Goku calls him a coward, then powers down and asks him if he's ever trained. After Moro reiterates he will never reform, that's when Goku powers back to UI and mentions his promise to Merus to protect the galaxy.
Goku is somehow simultaneously complex and simple as a character. I don't like the entire senzu situation with Moro that much if I were being honest (I think it's forced), but I cannot say it is out of character for Goku in this point of the story. ... 2
it resolved in Goku tricking beerus which is also unlike super Goku too.
this scene was, for just a little conversation, a lot more serious and suspenseful than anything else in super. ... 1
However, Toriyama kind of wrote himself into a wall when it comes to his depiction of Goku. His characters powers are far too immense to be used around society, and so he has Goku lead the villains away from civilization to a barren wasteland, 19 and 20 being prime examples of this. Even with Goku wanting to stay dead after Cell, while I loved that so much, it doesn't support his depiction, because Goku is being deprived of his passion to fight for the sake of humanity (and this is before he knew he'd be able to satisfy his passion in the afterlife). Then the Buu saga itself opened up a lot of cans where Goku's often shown being heroic over his passion. Dragon Ball Super gives Goku the chance to show less heroicness because he often fights in worlds where he doesn't need to worry about causalities, and even then, Goku's actions line up more with Toriyama's depiction just in general, such as when he fought Beerus in the city, but it's too late now. We've gone through Dragon Ball and Z where we see Goku develop into a heroic warrior, and he's at fault for writing him in the way he didn't want to write him. To suddenly change his character completely in the sequel series to fit your depiction will result in an inconsistency that's so big, it makes all of Z feel irrelevant. There's nothing else to say but, Toriyama messed up. He failed to write Goku in the way he depicted him. To us, the fans, Z Goku is beloved to us while Super Goku is somebody entirely different. DBZ is our Goku and DBS is Toriyama's Goku. ... 2
Six is spitting facts. Sometimes i wonder like, are people even reading the same manga? Lol ...
but Super forgot about that.
Goku also went on a picnic and was driving too- he was far more mature in Z- super seemed to exaggerate it too much. So well done Six ... 1
The character he wanted to write is harder to make interesting. In reality, if he wanted Goku to be a person who just wanted a stronger challenge all the time he should have made him fight both villans and heros because that how that works. Like he goes to Namak Frieza's nemesis Alomstfreza is their and asks Goku to team up and Goku insist instead on fighting him even if I makes stopping Freza impossible.
The reason Goku became a hero is that not trying to help people and not having a code would make him a villan at least by allowing evil to happen and that not what he intended either. ... 1
You could say goku thought that, since he did win fair and square, he figured moro would also have to see that and as Goku had stopped all prior attempts to eat the world during the skirmish goku figured his overwhelming power would force moro to understand his options were: die or face his time in prison.
Based on what he says in the small time where he leaves UI in the middle of the fight he seems like he kinda wants to be proven wrong that some people just have to die, that even people like moro can be forced to see reason, goku was just wrong.
Least, thats the best argument i can think of off the top of my head, so... prolly even not that good, hah. Personally i think it's kiiinda just seems like more super wheele spinning but part of me hopes theres something im just nor seeing. ... 2
Edit: Now that Daima is announced, I realize that Toriyama was not the only writer on Super, don't know the details but it seems like he has more creative freedom with Daima so we'll see ... 1
Not to mention he says something along the lines of "it's a shame your life had to end this way" so maybe i projected my own emotional baggage on there which made me interpret the scene as sad and angry.
Dbz was peak. Idk wtf happened. My guess is dragon ball became corporate as the years went by and when something goes corporate for long enough the story dies to make room for the money. And i still gladly buy anything that looks good even if it's fan service (in games)
There seems to be a sweet spot where the money is flowing but the story is still extremely important and that ended...idk. probably between z and super. It should be noted im an android/cell saga guy but obviously the buu saga was still awesome like 85% of the time it's just android and cell was like the apex to me
Anyway good vid. I couldnt put my thoughts together this well (not yet anyway) ...
And one thing i can't understand is why does the enemy didn't become suspicious with what Goku gave them? Moro can be a different kind of villain if, instead of eating senzu bean, wreck it and scatter it in the wind.
That way they differentiate Moro against other DB villain ...
My reason for thinking this is that Goku never liked killing people even if they where pure evil, so him trusting his instincts like what he has been learning through all of super makes sense to me he is giving Moro every opportunity to change his way's even gave him a sensu bean to show that no matter what you do you can not win. And when Moro still rejects him Goku then decides has to kill him.
I think him stopping and talking to Moro is some-what true to his character or at least an evolution of his character about how he trusts his instincts and because of that he is usually right, Like with piccolo to extent even though at the time he did to keep kami alive I don't believe that to be the main reason he did it, his true reason was to fight him again in the future and it turned out alright. And even more so with Vegeta, at the time he had no reason to spare him and he was the biggest threat they had met and it turned out alright in the end.
SO Goku trusting his instincts have been mostly consistent with his character and I think if they continue this path Super Goku will be in a better place and closer to a Z or more developed Z Goku ...
"After sale speech, the whole world fell in a state of terror"